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occurs post loan origination when mortgage servicers use false statements and book-keeping entries, fabricated assignments, forged signatures and utter counterfeit intangible Notes to take a homeowner's property and equity.
Articles Updated 101718
In an eye-opening piece by 60 Minutes this week, Scott Pelley managed to actually interview robo-signers who had forged documents that allowed banks to foreclose on thousands of homes illegally. As we have discussed over the past few years, these document mills re-created the necessary documents that banks were too lazy to keep track of in the heyday of the housing bubble.
Articles Updated 101018
Susan Richardson, a Bank of America foreclosure victim, certainly hopes so. With bated breath she’s following a drama currently playing out in a California bankruptcy court.
Articles Updated 100418
A new federally funded program is now accepting applications for mortgage assistance payments in Florida. The Florida Hardest-Hit program pays an applicant’s mortgage for up to six months to help them to focus on finding a job. There is a maximum, however, of $12,000. Also, the program will pay out up to $6,000 to bring loans current. If this seems meager, it is.
Articles Updated 092718
Today, September 25, 2018, twenty-one self-represented defendants fighting against the illegal foreclosure of their homes completed the filing and service of a petition to the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court, critical to the due process and appeal rights of the Inhabitants of Massachusetts under the state Constitution.
Articles Updated 092018
"The recommendations set forth by this committee will further improve on efforts to resolve housing disputes in a fair and equitable manner that benefits homeowners, lenders and communities throughout New Jersey," said the chairman
Articles Updated 091318
The Recovery Threw the Middle-Class Dream Under a Benz Once a year or so, the economist Diane Swonk ventures into the basement of her 1891 Victorian house outside Chicago.
Articles Updated 090518
The American Nightmare TEN YEARS AGO, THE ECONOMY WAS IMPLODING. In late 2017, we asked readers to tell us their foreclosure stories. More than 50 people responded. Over and over, they used the same word. Nightmare.
Articles Updated 082518
Wells Fargo executives know that everyone hates them. In the last two years, the bank has launched three separate marketing campaigns hoping to clean up its public image, only to see each effort thwarted by fresh, catastrophic scandals.
Articles Updated 082118
Let the blowback begin. A New York homeowner last week fought back against the denial of a mortgage modification by Wells Fargo — using as a cudgel in the bitter spat the bank’s admission just weeks earlier that a computer glitch wrongly denied hundreds of customers home loan help.
Articles Updated 080618
PLAINTIFF ENGAGED IN UNCLEAN HANDS TRYING TO PROVE STANDING TO FORECLOSE Unclean Hands Re: the Purported Mortgage Loan Schedule for the Trust.
Articles Updated 072818
THERE’S A HOT new trend in Donald Trump’s Washington: the “Mulvaney discount.” After pausing enforcement work when Acting Director Mick Mulvaney took over.
Articles Updated 071918
ON THURSDAY, THE Senate Banking Committee heard from Kathy Kraninger, an official at the Office of Management and Budget with no background in financial regulation or consumer protection.
Articles Updated 071118
Most people really don’t completely understand our premise when we investigate, research, examine and analyze a case or case documents. We have several premises with which we start and check to to see if they apply. While the answer is short the work behind it is long and complicated.
Articles Updated 070418
My confidence has never been higher that the handling of money after a foreclosure sale will reveal the fraudulent nature of most “foreclosures” initiated not on behalf of the owner of the debt but in spite of the the owner(s) of the debt.
Articles Updated 062418
This Firm "cut its teeth" in its pro bono representation of the LaRace family before the Land Court, and in the National precedent setting case, U.S. Bank Nat'l Ass'n v. Ibanez 458 Mass. 637 (Mass SJC 2011). Indeed, the case has became to be known nationally as simply "Ibanez", or "the Ibanez case", or in Massachusetts as "the Ibanez problem." [relating to title to real property].
Articles Updated 061818
President Trump has yet to formally name Kathy Kraninger as his choice to head the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, but her nomination is already in trouble — and that may be just fine with the White House.
Articles Updated 061218
Wells Fargo isn’t the only bank where heavy sales pressure led employees to open fake accounts. A federal review triggered by
Articles Updated 060418
On Wednesday, Federal bank regulators proposed to allow Wall Street more freedom to make riskier bets with federally-insured bank deposits – such as the money in your checking and savings accounts.
Articles Updated 052918
The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court has entered a new decision explaining the requirements for a valid foreclosure. In the case of Eaton v. Fannie Mae,
Articles Updated 052418
In summary, the plaintiff must be the holder of the note and mortgage with the right of enforcement of both instruments in order to bring a meritorious foreclosure action in Ohio.1 What is the statute of limitations for a foreclosure action in Ohio? Ohio law has two distinct statutes of limitation for enforcing notes and mortgages. The Ohio Supreme Court in Deutsche Bank Nat'l Trust Co. v. Holden ruled that an action to collect on a note is separate and distinct from an action to foreclose on a mortgage.
Articles Updated 051718
KELI N. JOHNSON and THOMAS E. JOHNSON, Appellants, v. DEUTSCHE BANK NATIONAL TRUST COMPANY AMERICAS, as Trustee RALI 2007-QS1, Appellee. Case No. 2D16-4262.
Articles Updated 050918
Deutsche Bank said they were happy to settle with the Federal Reserve. Why is Deutsche Bank happy to settle?
Articles Updated 050118
For years I have been saying and writing about the fact that the apparent servicer actually does nothing. Ocwen’s source of data capture and maintenance has been
Articles Updated 0429818
Sen. Elizabeth Warren sent a letter to the Trump administration's top consumer protection official late Thursday asking him whether he is doing the bidding of the industries he is supposed to be policing.
Articles Updated 0425818
The interim director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, Mick Mulvaney, told a group of over 1,000 bankers and lobbyists that they should give more money in campaign contributions if they want to weaken the power of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
Articles Updated 041618
This case shows that juries are still angry about the 2008 meltdown and that the entire burden was shifted to homeowners and taxpayers — who “bailed out” financial institutions that had no losses.
Articles Updated 040918
Reuters reports fine would cover mortgage lending and auto insurance issues. Could Wells Fargo be facing a record fine from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau?
Articles Updated 040418
On Wednesday, MERSCORP and eOriginal announced the launch of a new solution both companies say will enable originators to accelerate digital mortgage adoption.
Articles Updated 033018
| American Veteran’s 12 year battle with bank ends with Appellate Court reversing the lower court and dismissing foreclosure as barred by the statute of limitations.
Articles Updated 032618
EUGENE, Ore. - The Ulino couple has been facing an interesting situation for four years now. In 2014 they began receiving letters and phone calls from United Security Financial claiming they owed them money in mortgage payments, but the couple claimed they'd never done business with the bank.
Articles Updated 031918
The Washington State Legislature is one vote away from making changes to Bill 2057 that would be detrimental to homeowners.
Articles Updated 031218
Wronged Homeowners to Submit Video Proof of Criminal Fraud by Mega-Banks to Worcester District Attorney.
Articles Updated 030718
I was rummaging through some recent cases when I found a case involving HSBC Bank USA, NA who was acting as a Trustee for a REMIC, which got me thinking.
Articles Updated 030218
The Department of Housing and Urban Development announced this week that the Federal Housing Administration is extending the foreclosure moratorium for Hurricane Maria victims in Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands..
Articles Updated 022718
The city of Sacramento has filed a federal lawsuit against Wells Fargo alleging the banking giant steers African American and Latino borrowers into high-risk and high-cost mortgages.
Articles Updated 022218
On January 14, the California Supreme Court issued its opinion in Riverisland Cold Storage v. Fresno-Madera Production Credit Assn., which takes away a lender defense to borrower fraud claims and will therefore have a significant impact on all California lenders.
Articles Updated 021718
The House of Representatives last night approved a bill that could bring big changes to the mortgage industry, including making it easier for loan originators to move from a traditional bank to a nonbank.
Articles Updated 021218
Back in May 2017, President Donald Trump’s 2018 federal budget proposal put the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau in its crosshairs, recommending slashing the bureau’s budget to almost nothing as a method to rein in the seemingly negative impact of the CFPB on consumers.
Articles Updated 020718
A bankruptcy judge who slammed Bank of America Corp. for its treatment of a California couple over a foreclosure declined a request to tear up the scathing opinion, saying it was important “to name and to shame” the company in order to shed light on practices that affect consumers.
Your voice gets results! Call your State Representative and Senator, and ask them to Report MAAPL’s Bills Out of Committee before February 7th!Why? After the 7th, any bill still in committee goes nowhere!.
Articles Updated 020218
The way the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau enforces fair lending laws could be about to significantly change after CFPB Acting Director Mick Mulvaney reportedly stripped the bureau’s Office of Fair Lending of its enforcement powers.
Articles Updated 012918
Too bad there is no bureau to protect the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau....
When a judge looks carefully at the record, the bank loses. The use of Deutsch’s name in the style of the case still shows that Judges are considering the Plaintiff to be the named “Trustee” instead of the named (or named, which is frequently the case) Trust. In fact the Trustee has nothing to do with foreclosures. In this case the Judge wrote the following:
Your voice gets results! Call both your Representative & Senator at the State House. Ask them to support MAAPL’s Resolution Trust Fund & Mediation Alternative to Foreclosure bills: H3676 & S500/H550.
“One who comes into equity must come with clean hands else all relief will be denied him regardless of merit of his claim and is not essential that act be a crime; it is enough that it be condemned by honest and reasonable men” Roberts v Roberts, 84 So.2d 717 (Fla. 1956)
It sounds almost biblical; a pronouncement from up high and a warning that those who crave riches must do so by ethical means: so-called “clean hands.”
Reaches settlement with CIT Bank, additional settlement on restated financials
It’s been a year of settlements for Ocwen Financial. For example, earlier this year, Ocwen reached a $223 million settlement with the California Department of Business Oversight, ridding itself of the restrictions that hampered its mortgage business in California for more than two years....
On Tuesday, September 26th, five of MAAPL’s bills will have a hearing before the Judiciary committee of the MA legislature. Please come to the State House and support these bills!
The following bills will be heard:
Foreclosure Review Division of Superior Court (S903/H3059) Sponsors: Sen. McGee & Rep. Gonzalez Face Sheet on this Bill ( PDF ) This Bill establishes a statewide, specialized division of Superior Court to adjudicate all aspects of foreclosure-related cases, instead of the several courts that now have jurisdiction over one or another aspect of such cases. The Foreclosure Review Division will be empowered to clear title to foreclosed properties, both for those foreclosed and for third-party purchasers, and will provide online and other assistance to pro se litigants. It will free up regular court dockets and promote judicial economy.
Clarifying Municipal Authority (S884/H1115) Sponsors: Sen. Lesser, Sen. Chandler, Sen. McGee and Rep. Tosado Fact Sheet on this Bill ( PDF ) The bill clarifies that municipalities can continue to exercise their health and safety powers in service of their residents even in the context of this foreclosure crisis. Worcester successfully ran a groundbreaking cash bond program for over 5 years and Lynn showed that pre-foreclosure mediation can result in mutually agreed upon affordable loan modifications leading to avoidance of foreclosure in 97% of cases.
Preventing Unnecessary Vacancies (S841/H956) Sponsors: Sen. Eldridge and Rep. Sanchez Fact Sheet on this Bill ( PDF ) This Bill requires a commercial purchaser of a foreclosed home to rent it to the “foreclosed” homeowner until the property is sold to a new owner-occupant. The former owners become tenants paying the HUD fair market rent for their units. Post-foreclosure tenants can be evicted only for just cause.
Real Estate Title Protection Act (H3500) Sponsors: Rep. Moran and Rep. Mark Fact Sheet on this Bill ( PDF ) This Bill protects real estate titles; its provisions ensure, for instance, that the mortgagor (borrower) can always tell who owns the mortgage, and require the Mortgage Note to be returned to the mortgagor, marked “Paid in Full,” upon payoff. It requires Registries of Deeds to record each mortgage in the names of the real parties in interest, that is, the mortgagor and lender. It institutes deadlines for recording assignments of mortgage and foreclosure deeds. Protecting marketable title will bolster business creation by facilitating entrepreneurs’ mortgages on their own homes; these historically have provided up to 70% of the credit for new U.S. businesses.
Judicial Foreclosure (S763/H2349) Sponsors: Sen. Brady and Rep. Smizik Fact Sheet on this Bill ( PDF ) This Bill requires foreclosure of 1-4 family homes to be conducted through a court action. A party wishing to foreclose must provide the legal documentation to prove to a judge that it is the mortgage-holder before it forecloses. With our present non-judicial foreclosures, the burden is on a wronged homeowner to get a judge to order the foreclosing party to produce this evidence. Judicial Foreclosure will prevent foreclosures by those with no authority to foreclose, and prevent clouds on title presently created during non-judicial foreclosures.
Mortgage Servicer’s Widespread Errors, Shortcuts, and Runarounds Cost Borrowers Money, Homes
WASHINGTON, D.C. — The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) today sued one of the country’s largest nonbank mortgage loan servicers, Ocwen Financial Corporation, and its subsidiaries for failing borrowers at every stage of the mortgage servicing process...
SO CLOSE! MAAPL is so close! We are within $2,630 of our $7,400* goal to complete the lawsuit preparations, challenge and stop the Homeowner Rights stripping law aka S2015. Please contribute to the Massachusetts Alliance Against Predatory Lending. MAAPL needed to break this powerful constitutional lawsuit into two pieces. The first, small lawsuit seeks to extend the deadline for homeowners to record to preserve their rights. This piece was successfully filed (see links to coverage at www.MAAPL.info). But Massachusetts Chapter 141 of the Laws of 2015 —S2015 itself— is completely unconstitutional! To challenge it and file that more fundamental suit in the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court, MAAPL must now raise the rest of the $7,400 to cover its separate filing fee and pay the lawyer who did the majority of the (fabulous) writing. We’re so close! We’re so excited! When foreclosed homeowners find out they can fight back, it is life-changing! The stories I’ve heard at our outreach clinics have been horrifying: one couple was pressured into a cash for keys deal when their brother had just been found dead in the house while trying to help them pack up! But we’ve also received profound thanks: seen people cry on someone’s shoulder in appreciation and then watched them walk out of the clinics with heads high, empowered to fight back. Affidavits filed at the registry have stopped sales of 3 homes already and one saved their court case which they won! We must challenge S2015 in Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court. Will you donate $50 or what you are able to MAAPL now? Go to www.MAAPL.info, look on home page, right hand column for our protected, PayPal donation site for our protected, PayPal donation site. Love, Grace *Special thanks to all of you who have contributed already!!! And special shout out to the Green-Rainbow Party for their additional solicitation! MAAPL – The Massachusetts Alliance Against Predatory Lending A coalition of local and state-wide organizations working together to reverse the foreclosure crisis. MAAPL.INFO
In the days leading up to the February 23, 2017 filing deadline to retain your 20 year right to challenge your foreclosure in court,
MAAPL is scheduling a series of Anti-Foreclosure Legal Clinics in key towns and cities across Massachusetts to help homeowners file their affidavits at their local Registry of Deeds.
What if thousands joined the fight and reversed the tide on the banks? Your getting the word out right now could make this a reality.
Mass Alliance Against Predatory Lending is in a massive push to reach the 77,000 who have been foreclosed (no doubt illegally) in Massachusetts.
1. That most foreclosures have been illegal and people can now fight and win.
2. They have 20 years after the foreclosure happened to rejoin the fight and get justice.
3. They have go to try to get to a clinic or get in touch with MAAPL right now.
The next deadline for protecting their rights is February 23, 2017. www.maapl.info links to the clinics that have been scheduled across the state.
Those fighting foreclosure can also call in any Sunday night,
RIGHT NOW, we need you to be the arms and voices to reach folks who are alone, feeling isolated and ashamed.
Normally notification would be the responsibility of our Attorney General, but she hasn’t done it.
NOW we need you to make it a reality. These are the last of the clinics in Massachusetts!!!
- Monday, Feb. 20th, 4-8pm: New Bedford, MA Anti-Foreclosure Clinic
- Tuesday, Feb. 21st, 6:30-9pm: Franklin County Anti-Foreclosure Clinic
- Wednesday, Feb. 22nd, 1:00-5:00 pm Roxbury, MA Anti-Foreclosure Clinic
Tennessee courts are no longer blindly accepting the “we have the Note, therefore we win” position consistently taken by the “banks” and servicers.
Wells Fargo Bank has been ordered to pay a Dallas woman more than $8 million by a state judge who concluded the bank defrauded her in serving as a trustee for a trust established when she was orphaned at age 7. On June 30, Tobolowsky ruled in favor of Militello’s claims that she had been cheated out of her funds. That amount includes more than $1.5 million in losses, $1 million for mental anguish, and $3.5 million in exemplary — or punitive — damages. The total also includes various amounts for interest, costs and nearly $500,000 in attorneys’ fees.
The CFPB alleged the bank illegally relied on robo-signing — signing mass quantities of documents without verifying the data in those accounts — and provided inaccurate information to third-party debt collectors when it sold the accounts. The bureau also said that Chase filed misleading lawsuits using inaccurate information to obtain debt collection judgments — on accounts that were paid off, discharged in bankruptcy, or otherwise were uncollectable.
Imagine how outrageous it would be if some Wall Street sharpies went to court to argue that they didn’t benefit enough from the bailouts and that taxpayers should pay them tens of billions of dollars more. In fact, they did. And, according to legal observers, they just might prevail.
"While the bank claims that these were communications with its agent, it has produced nothing to show that coaxing witnesses to commit perjury was part of its agency agreement with Ocwen, Ice wrote in a May 28 response to Sokolof's motion; It's just trying to get even with us for letting the world know what they're doing. You can't protect future fraud on the court by way of attorney-client privilege."
UPDATE: Glaski and the WAMU Trust
I note for the Court's benefit that a transfer to the Trust on June 11, 2009 is a legal impossibility for a number of reasons. I cannot conclude that this particular mortgage loan was ever owned by any of the parties. It is my opinion that this Trust does not own this mortgage loan. (This is why the banks do not want us questioning the trusts.)
Mains lost in the trial court and the appellate court affirmed.
Though defendants’ November 15, 2012, motion seeking vacatur of the summary judgment was not filed within 30 days of that judgment, defendants’ challenge was not untimely. The final judgment in a mortgage foreclosure action is the order confirming the sale and ordering the distribution of proceeds. EMC Mortgage Corp. v. Kemp
Foreclosure Auction Bid-Rigging or Fraud
The mortgage industry in America is saturated in fraud from appraisals to the sale of foreclosed properties, especially properties seized though illegal foreclosure. In some cases, it appears local sheriffs, judges, foreclosure-mills and title companies are willfully participating in and profiting from the illegal activities surrounding these rigged auctions.
(This link takes you to our Daily News page where we have linked to the referenced cases from 2012/2013 demonstrating the complete securitization fail. Anyone who is arguing secuitization, should file these cases with the Court.)
The true ownership of millions of mortgages issued during the housing bubble was fatally corrupted, and now it's impossible to prove who actually legally controls those mortgages.
to Robo-Witnesses
Foreclosure defense attorney Thomas Ice said he's uncovered a script that was provided to Ocwen witnesses to crush homeowner defenses and allegations of robo-witnesses by financial services sector employees who have no first-hand knowledge of mortgage details.
No Statute of Limitations on VOID Deed
Under our prior case law it is well-settled that a forged deed is void ab initio, meaning a legal nullity at its inception. As such, any encumbrance upon real property based on a forged deed is null and void. Therefore, the statute of limitations set forth in CPLR 213 (8) does not foreclose plaintiff's claim against defendant. As the Appellate Division affirmed the dismissal of plaintiff's claims as time-barred, we now reverse.
REFERENCED: ["(o)f course, there is no statute of limitations in respect to the challenge of a forged deed, which is void ab initio"]; The high court of West Virginia, for example, has observed that "there is no statute of limitations regarding void deeds"; "while the high court of Idaho held that " [b]ecause [a] lease agreement was void ab initio, it could be challenged at any time"
All 700 employees let go.
Law firm of Butler and Hosch, P.A closes its doors overnight with a memo to employees on 5/14. Their website says that the firm provides “cradle to grave” service in all aspects of real estate and mortgage serving law (eviction, foreclosures, litigation, loss mitigation, REO, Title) since 1972 all under one roof.
Award and recognition: LPS Attorney Performance “Best in State” award for foreclosure and bankruptcy.
Additional information sent to MSFraud: A quote from an employee on Glass door: Pros “None to speak of at this point…Can list a whole laundry list of cons, nothing more to say… the company had gone under Cons “Everything about [firm] is a con…. (posted 5/14) Posted 5/13 Pros There is a lot of dating within the company pool; Cons “Disfunction junction. Ethics not a thing at [firm] “The problems with management are exacerbated by the problems with the off shore employees. Manilla employees speak almost zero English. Just enough to merge a pleading and fill in some blanks. There is no quality control and only one native English speaker in the entire Manilla office. And then management is “shocked” when client systems are updated incorrectly or pleadings are filled with blatant errors.”
DAVID J. STERN
Florida law provides that a judgment can be opened or vacated if it was obtained by fraud, or if it is void, and also has a “crime/fraud” exception to the attorney/client privilege which does not protect communications between a party and its attorney if those communications were made in furtherance of the perpetration of or for the purpose of committing a crime or fraud even if the crime or fraud is not consummated.
An Old Remedy Has New Teeth
That cheaters should not be allowed to prosper has long been central to the moral fabric of our society and one of the underpinnings of our legal system.
Dismissal with prejudice has long been available as the ultimate civil sanction against litigation misconduct, but is often bypassed
The defendant waived the defense of lack of standing.
(This reversal does not validate the VOID assignment.)
The earlier decision in
their Foreclosure Specialist didn't know anything about anything.
Lend America did not deliver the subject note to MERS. The subject mortgage did not give MERS the authority to assign the subject note.
In September 2010, Residential Credit Solutions began rejecting Hammer's monthly payments and refused to acknowledge the existence of the loan modification. RCS then proceeded to prosecute two separate foreclosure actions against Hammer, despite the fact that Hammer, still to this day, has tendered all of her monthly payments as required under the loan modification agreement. The first foreclosure case was dismissed in favor of Hammer and against RCS in 2011.
government says in suit.
The U.S. government alleges Quicken Loans knowingly violated mortgage underwriting practices just to close bad loans insured by FHA -- a practice it says has cost taxpayers millions of dollars and hurt neighborhoods when the houses went into foreclosure.
name-calling, inflated payments, lies
The Federal Trade Commission and Consumer Financial Protection Bureau allege Green Tree has spent the years since the financial crisis terrorizing homeowners.
Green Tree abused homeowners who are behind on their mortgages by swearing at them, calling them names, mocking their illnesses and threatening them with prison will pay out more than $60 million.
Moved to Seize Widow’s Home.
But didn’t tell her the loan was insured.
When her husband passed away in 2003, Select Portfolio and Bank of America did not arrange a payoff of the $100,000 policy and continued to charge his widow an insurance premium every month along with her mortgage payment.
How many don't know their home was insured?
The biggest investment most Americans will make is now the target of the biggest financial crimes in history and labeled:
"The Perfect Crime."
When fully exposed, this will make Enron look like a parking ticket.
- MSFraud 2003 -
From the 2005 transcript of hearing in MERS v. Cabrera
"It truly concerns me, however, that thousands and thousands -- thousands and thousands of mortgage foreclosure actions have been filed with these allegations. I am not certain what remedy, if any, these people would have were it to be determined that MERS was not ever the proper party notwithstanding that these folks [might] have been in default what their recourse, if any, would be. I'm not certain with the satisfaction of mortgages that have been filed on behalf of MERS how good those are and I am not certain how good title to property is that people bought at these foreclosure sales if it turns or becomes established that MERS was indeed not only not the right party but misrepresented by way of their pleadings and affidavits that they held something they didn't own, so I'm not certain of the consequences but it seems vast."
- The Honorable Judge Jon Gordon - September 2005 (Emphasis added)
"It truly concerns me, however, that thousands and thousands -- thousands and thousands of mortgage foreclosure actions have been filed with these allegations. I am not certain what remedy, if any, these people would have were it to be determined that MERS was not ever the proper party notwithstanding that these folks [might] have been in default what their recourse, if any, would be. I'm not certain with the satisfaction of mortgages that have been filed on behalf of MERS how good those are and I am not certain how good title to property is that people bought at these foreclosure sales if it turns or becomes established that MERS was indeed not only not the right party but misrepresented by way of their pleadings and affidavits that they held something they didn't own, so I'm not certain of the consequences but it seems vast."
- The Honorable Judge Jon Gordon - September 2005 (Emphasis added)
